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Please no answers like "NO, that is cheating"

I am thinking about developing or using a existing pre flop bot if its adequate for my needs on low stake sitngo stars tournys (25c buy-in) and moving up the stakes if there's success.

From what Ive noticed from playing these, it is really easy if you play tight to get close to the money. The only problem is playing like this is so boring and I wish I could just autofold trash.

Does this tight (even tight passive) strategy work just as effective on higher stakes like $4 tourny buyins?

Can someone suggest a bot?

If I was to develop my own (I am confident I could at least build a foldbot) what precautions do I need to take specifically on stars?

I hear Stars is the most strict and defensive against tools.

Thanks, and I hope outflopped builds into a prospering community soon.

asked Feb 08 '10 at 02:21

Heart2Spade's gravatar image

Heart2Spade
3313410

edited Feb 09 '10 at 00:22

Mr.%20Flibble's gravatar image

Mr. Flibble
2061411


WinHold'em and/or Open Hold'em are the two you'll see mentioned most frequently. There are others. And you could write your own. But to a degree you're fighting an uphill battle to get even a simple foldbot up and running on a site like Stars or Tilt.

The SNG is a tough format for the "auto-fold the garbage" style of foldbot play, because the rising blinds create a lot of dynamic strategy, where it's correct to raise or even re-raise with a hand you might have routinely folded in another position, or when the blinds were smaller.

And the "wait until I get close to the money" strategy really starts to break down as you move up in limits, and even in the microlimits, you're giving up a lot with this style of play. It can be profitable in the micros, or in bigger SNGs if you game select, but it's never going to be optimal.

Maybe most importantly: Having a foldbot doesn't free you as much as you'd think. You're still forced to wait. And although you're not chained to the computer every second of every hand, it's not like you can go watch reruns of Big Bang Theory either. You're still chained, and you're still bored. You just have a longer leash.

I think foldbots are relatively innocent, don't get me wrong. Just not as helpful as you'd think, when you actually get one up and running. That is to say the novelty wears off.

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answered Feb 08 '10 at 22:10

codingthewheel's gravatar image

codingthewheel
38815

Hi codingthewheel, I have been subscribed to your blog for about 1 year and have been slowly reading through your 'how i..' posts.

I dont really like Win/Open holdem as I really want control over everything. Thanks for the suggestion anyway. Also I pretty much hate working with others code, but if I get serious I will defiantly take a read through it.

What I would really like is information on how Stars searches for bots. I mean I haven’t looked too far into it yet but at this point the biggest problem would be generating realistic mouse moves to stay undetected.

(Feb 09 '10 at 02:04) Heart2Spade

Does Stars pick up your DLL injectiojns?

(Feb 09 '10 at 02:04) Heart2Spade

tight play in the early stages of a SNG is the only way to go, so long as you are getting aggressive at the right times later on when the blinds get big. If you are going to make some kind of pre flop bot I would try it on any other site apart from Stars...Pokerstars Jeff is world renown for his bot hunting skills.

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answered Feb 08 '10 at 17:27

Ralph_Macchio's gravatar image

Ralph_Macchio
1212

A tool prohibited when it's take action instead of you. Pokerstars has very serious tools about detecting any form of helper bots so I don't think it's worth the risk. :-(

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answered Feb 08 '10 at 06:37

HEX77's gravatar image

HEX77
871

^^^+1 Also, multitable to reduce the boredom of tight preflop play... If you ARE intent on doing this though, check out pokerai.org, it has plenty stealthing info, but (if I remember) you need to contribute plenty to get access... Also remember 25c tourneys are going to be different to even $2 ones. tight-passive wont work, try tight-aggressive instead?? Good Luck! (And you have been warned ;-) )

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answered Feb 08 '10 at 08:15

R1v3r3d%20AGa1n's gravatar image

R1v3r3d AGa1n
1.1k128

A foldbot is much etter suited to the super-turbo tournaments on full tilt poker. It's either all-in or fold pretty much the whole game. I know there have been some bots that were caught playing on super turbos on full tilt but I don't remember any specifics. I imagine they would be actively looking for them as well.

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answered Feb 23 '10 at 23:07

Amerzel's gravatar image

Amerzel
1715

I actually followed coding the wheel and built a bot (short game type). I only bothered getting the bot up and running on poker stars and only played free money but poker stars never detected it(screen scraping type bot).
The statistical edge in poker is small even for the best players (check out kyle silers paper posted elsewhere on this site). So to make money the bot has to play lots of tables at large limits. The fold bot will only stretch your rope since you would be playing multiple tables. If you are playing at large limits i'd play yourself unless the bot is better than you :) I can tell you from the experience of myself (break even, + program) and my friends(make living playing poker) that a slightly advanced short game bot can break better than even. A simple bot depends on fish for its profits so it would be advisable to take over for the bot maybe midway through any tournant or at ring games with few fish. Building a bot turned out to have a lot of surprising programming challenges. however I work in .net, if you program in C++ issues like global hooking and interacting with the windows api are much easier to handle. If you do work in C++ I'd be happy to consult as it would help me build a data mining bot.

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answered Feb 28 '10 at 11:51

mazoula's gravatar image

mazoula
18112

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Asked: Feb 08 '10 at 02:21

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Last updated: Feb 28 '10 at 11:51

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